basilmemories (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
basilmemories) wrote2006-06-08 02:02 am
basilmemories) wrote2006-06-08 02:02 am
Grumblings
So I have this friend who recently has been showing me anime’ out the yin-yang; and I have no issue with that, but I do have a leeetle problem though.
It’s all freakin’ dubs.
Now if you know me you know I’m fond of the Japanese language, its cadence, its terms, so on and so fourth. I’m also fond of following Japanese voice actors, to the point where even a wretchedly bad series will be ten times better if there’s someone in it I’ve followed (IE: the bouncer).
I’m also fond of subtitles because I know a small smattering of Japanese, just enough to sometimes pick out a ‘hey that’s not what they were saying AT ALL’ when it comes up in the subs. The subtitles are very strong guidelines to me, not hard and fast rules.
So you can see where I’m annoyed by this. I’ve told my friend that there are some series that I won’t watch in dub. I don’t want the English voices stuck in my head, it happened with ‘Slayers’ and I’ve regretted it since. I’ve given my reasons why I prefer the Japanese language track (one of the chief reasons being a more accurate translation) and here’s summing up his views:
1)As an artist he’s more interested in the drawings, and having to read subtitles distracts him from the art.
2)Direct-translation dubs are more accurate then ever, as most of the companies have been in the business awhile.
3)When a creator is making a project at a studio, they’re given an option to either time the thing to English or Japanese; as there’s actually a larger English audience, most time to English and work on making the English script true to their vision, making the dub more accurate.
4)Much how I follow Japanese VA’s, he follows dub actors.
And while I understand his views, I feel the following:
1)While that’s well and good, the dub track is distracting me from the enjoyment of the film; plus since he’s seen the damn thing multiple times he should know the story and not have a problem with me watching the subs. And since I’ve grown up on subs, very rarely do I get distracted from the art.
2)Even reputable companies can screw up royally; I don’t want my viewing experience marred by wondering if it’s really the right translation.
3)That’s also fine and good for big companies that have a firm pipeline into the us market, but for smaller studios and studios that really don’t have much involvement in the us it means there’s still going to be a LOT of hit-and-miss English dubs. It also means that every time I want to watch something I have to research which form it was made for. I’ll get to this bit later.
4)I like the sound of Japanese speech, I like the way that the Japanese actors express themselves, some American VA’s can hit the mark, but most handle the scenes in a very localized manner, and that’s not what I’m watching the show for.
The biggest sticking point is 3. To just get my friend to play the Japanese track without (much) grumbling, I have to find out which version it was timed to, which is sort of a moot point if I don’t have the anime’ to watch in the first place. As a matter of fact the only series I managed to pull this off with was ‘Gankutsuou’ when I wanted to show him the series, and even then I think I got away with it only because there was no other language track. Even if I get my point across about the translations he’ll play the dub and then the Japanese, “for comparison” (which sort of is my fault, I did say that I cared about an accurate translation first and foremost). I feel like I’m being punished for wanting to hear the Japanese, “you want subtitles? I’ll give you subtitles, but you gotta watch the same episode twice”. Plus if we’re strapped for time, I have a good hunch that the subtitles are out entirely.
The point is I watch anime’ for FUN; and having to do research and trying to point-by-point debate just so I can watch anime’ in my favored setup? Isn’t my idea of fun. It makes me want to say, “No, I’m not going to watch it anymore with you.”
So what should I do:
a)Say flat out, “in your place we can watch it how you want, but at my place we watch it with the Japanese language track.”
b)Keep dodging the subject and back out of everything until he gives up.
c)Other (please explain in comments)
It’s all freakin’ dubs.
Now if you know me you know I’m fond of the Japanese language, its cadence, its terms, so on and so fourth. I’m also fond of following Japanese voice actors, to the point where even a wretchedly bad series will be ten times better if there’s someone in it I’ve followed (IE: the bouncer).
I’m also fond of subtitles because I know a small smattering of Japanese, just enough to sometimes pick out a ‘hey that’s not what they were saying AT ALL’ when it comes up in the subs. The subtitles are very strong guidelines to me, not hard and fast rules.
So you can see where I’m annoyed by this. I’ve told my friend that there are some series that I won’t watch in dub. I don’t want the English voices stuck in my head, it happened with ‘Slayers’ and I’ve regretted it since. I’ve given my reasons why I prefer the Japanese language track (one of the chief reasons being a more accurate translation) and here’s summing up his views:
1)As an artist he’s more interested in the drawings, and having to read subtitles distracts him from the art.
2)Direct-translation dubs are more accurate then ever, as most of the companies have been in the business awhile.
3)When a creator is making a project at a studio, they’re given an option to either time the thing to English or Japanese; as there’s actually a larger English audience, most time to English and work on making the English script true to their vision, making the dub more accurate.
4)Much how I follow Japanese VA’s, he follows dub actors.
And while I understand his views, I feel the following:
1)While that’s well and good, the dub track is distracting me from the enjoyment of the film; plus since he’s seen the damn thing multiple times he should know the story and not have a problem with me watching the subs. And since I’ve grown up on subs, very rarely do I get distracted from the art.
2)Even reputable companies can screw up royally; I don’t want my viewing experience marred by wondering if it’s really the right translation.
3)That’s also fine and good for big companies that have a firm pipeline into the us market, but for smaller studios and studios that really don’t have much involvement in the us it means there’s still going to be a LOT of hit-and-miss English dubs. It also means that every time I want to watch something I have to research which form it was made for. I’ll get to this bit later.
4)I like the sound of Japanese speech, I like the way that the Japanese actors express themselves, some American VA’s can hit the mark, but most handle the scenes in a very localized manner, and that’s not what I’m watching the show for.
The biggest sticking point is 3. To just get my friend to play the Japanese track without (much) grumbling, I have to find out which version it was timed to, which is sort of a moot point if I don’t have the anime’ to watch in the first place. As a matter of fact the only series I managed to pull this off with was ‘Gankutsuou’ when I wanted to show him the series, and even then I think I got away with it only because there was no other language track. Even if I get my point across about the translations he’ll play the dub and then the Japanese, “for comparison” (which sort of is my fault, I did say that I cared about an accurate translation first and foremost). I feel like I’m being punished for wanting to hear the Japanese, “you want subtitles? I’ll give you subtitles, but you gotta watch the same episode twice”. Plus if we’re strapped for time, I have a good hunch that the subtitles are out entirely.
The point is I watch anime’ for FUN; and having to do research and trying to point-by-point debate just so I can watch anime’ in my favored setup? Isn’t my idea of fun. It makes me want to say, “No, I’m not going to watch it anymore with you.”
So what should I do:
a)Say flat out, “in your place we can watch it how you want, but at my place we watch it with the Japanese language track.”
b)Keep dodging the subject and back out of everything until he gives up.
c)Other (please explain in comments)
no subject
You can also focus on good dubs. Fruits Basket, Cowboy Bebop, Hellsing, etc... (shrugs)
no subject
Another issue is that he's one of the proverbial 'old-schoolers' and that he grew up with dubs as that's what they were doing in Berkley at that time. he's about as stubborn as I am on this topic.
As for the Sub-on-dub topic; I tried that, it had mixed results. the subs were different for "please twins" (which the series sort of burns my soul oh god the wangst), but he countered that it had been timed to english.
This isn't to say that I'm going to throw aside your suggestion, just that I'm quite frustrated overall.