basilmemories (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
basilmemories) wrote2010-05-03 06:30 am
basilmemories) wrote2010-05-03 06:30 am
On things and apping.
About a year ago if you would have asked me how I felt about Harukami being able to stay so positive about being voted out, I would have shaken my head and said I would never be able to do that. However this time around I’m kinda zen about it. Sure I kinda want to punch someone in particular, but my general feeling about reapping again is “Fuck you X, I can play this character, I HAVE played this character, and with enough work I WILL get this character in. Doesn’t matter if it takes three apps or a hundred”. And honestly I think a lot of that has to do with how the crit/betaing was different between the two apps.
In the first app I watched the show, typed up an app, and sent it off to my betas pretty late. I wanted to appeal to the widest audience so I went with a lot of the crit that was “make it funnier”, “cut out the scream here”, “cut out the first paragraph” excexc. In short I followed nearly all of the crit my betas gave me, sent it in...
And got voted out. HARSHLY. Also one of my betas even turned around and voted me out after I followed her suggestions. The response from both the betas and the crit in the voting was pretty much focused on the negatives, and it was pretty hard on me because I had been playing him somewhere else and it made me revaluate my opinion about my rp skills.
Namely, I considered dropping Zhores, Kuhn AND that other character because I felt that I was a complete failure at this sort of thing. Seriously, if it weren’t for the fact that I couldn’t go through with the “hey guys, I’m going to drop Kuhn, do you want to do threads to wrap things up/offscreen things?” email, I would have dropped out of roleplaying because I thought I sucked that much. I still think I suck, but at least I’m good enough to play characters on glorified forum systems.
So it took me a good two weeks or so, but I finally choked down my pride because a potential castmate was going to app. I focused on voice, stuck with my friends for beta... and kinda got more of the same. Some of the things they said completely went against what I’d got in the crit from the last voting round, and the betas in the previous round. When I brought this up I got “I’m not seeing any disagreement here”. Okay not in THAT group of betas, but compared to what I’d heard before? Then yeah, yeah there was a disagreement. I essentially threw the idea out the window and started again, hoping to get something done and send it in. I sent a comment to Cielo and she looked it over.
And said that she would have at least voted me in on the last paragraph.
Up until that point I had minimal, if any positive reinforcement through the app process. Up until then I was the living embodiment of the table-flip emoticon. When someone is coming off being voted out they’re usually more sensitive then normal. They’ve just been told by a large portion of the players that their work isn’t good enough to play a person who doesn’t exist in a b-grade zombie camp. So to ignore the very core of betaing/crit is a recipe for getting bitched at.
What is that core rule? One negative point for every two positive points. When Cielo told me that I did SOMETHING right, everything changed. I worked on that app lovingly, and I set it aside because I wanted it to be perfect for when I sent it in. I fretted over the canon, made a spreadsheet of every single time that character appeared in the series, even if it was just for a moment, and reread over all the books. While the last time I sent my app in because I said “Fuck it, it sucks but I’ve seen worse get in. I’ll just hope all the hardass voters are dead at the moment”, this time I was emotionally invested in my work. Yes I flailed on the last day and I was working up to the very deadline, but I laughed a little at my own work, had moments of “OH FUCK YES, that’s so him”, and looked back on my work and was proud.
So I sent it in, and it went up to vote. And within the first MINUTE about four people voted it out. I hurried to do damage control and ask for crit/explain myself... when the person I want to punch replied.
Now here’s the thing about crit. If you’re from an obscure canon you have the odds stacked against you. If you have an obscure canon with a CAST your odds are better, since they’re more likely to whiteknight for you if they think the app is good. But if you’re from an obscure canon, you have no cast, and someone who says they’re canon familiar tears you a new asshole, you’re fucked. Here is the double standard of crit in action. The voter/person giving the crit can say just about anything short of “You suck cock and I don’t want you to ever app here again” and get away with it. However the person getting the crit has to be very, VERY careful about what they say, or they get told that they’re acting rude and people will have a stronger tendency to vote them out. It’s the same thing with betas, you can’t say “My betas focused on the negative only/gave me conflicting advice/told me my app was weak and then didn’t provide help on how to fix that”. You. Just. Can’t. The last person who did heavily point it out in the voting comm got raked over hot coals for it, and you better damn believe they didn’t get in.
Now I did essentially have a back and forth saying “here’s my points, here’s what I think we’re disagreeing on, and I think my view of him is still valid.” Aaaand for the most part I felt she was flippant and condescending. It came down to two people who were both canon familiar having differing views on the character interpretation. If I had noted that, as an apper I would have crossed an even bigger line, and you can bet that shit would have come down on me. Even though I knew that I had a good chance of being voted out at that point, I wanted to defend myself, because otherwise I felt I was validating her view that I didn’t know the character and/or had half-assed the app. I was going to go out, but I would go out like I wanted to.
And then near the end Aj commented. Now I’m mentioning her name because she’s awesome and I have nothing but respect for her after this, and thus I'm not saying anything bad about her. She brought up a lot of the main points, but she did so in a sensitive way and I didn’t feel talked down to at all. I don’t even care if she voted me out or not. I don’t even remember and it doesn’t matter. She provided good crit that I’m very likely to follow in the reapp, and she explained her views in a way that not only was respectful, but her tone even helped me get past the depression stage faster. It’s okay, there were flaws but some good things too, YOU DON’T SUCK.
In a lot of ways taking on a challenging app has been eye-opening. I’m planning on opening a game soon, and I never would have discovered these problems with the app system if I hadn’t gone through this. I think the voter-based app system is the best, and I’ll be using it in my game, but I now know what guidelines to mention, what to suggest to potential betas and voters, and how to hopefully nip that “elitist” accusation in the bud.
All in all it’s been an okay weekend aside from that little bump, and I’ve gotten a lot of work done on the website for the game. I have a counselor app coming up, but the canon review and the app itself will be pure joy. On other matters I’ll be talking to the dentist on the 12th about why my root canalled tooth still smells like rot, and I need to bug the people at that one job again. But right now? I need to sleep.
In the first app I watched the show, typed up an app, and sent it off to my betas pretty late. I wanted to appeal to the widest audience so I went with a lot of the crit that was “make it funnier”, “cut out the scream here”, “cut out the first paragraph” excexc. In short I followed nearly all of the crit my betas gave me, sent it in...
And got voted out. HARSHLY. Also one of my betas even turned around and voted me out after I followed her suggestions. The response from both the betas and the crit in the voting was pretty much focused on the negatives, and it was pretty hard on me because I had been playing him somewhere else and it made me revaluate my opinion about my rp skills.
Namely, I considered dropping Zhores, Kuhn AND that other character because I felt that I was a complete failure at this sort of thing. Seriously, if it weren’t for the fact that I couldn’t go through with the “hey guys, I’m going to drop Kuhn, do you want to do threads to wrap things up/offscreen things?” email, I would have dropped out of roleplaying because I thought I sucked that much. I still think I suck, but at least I’m good enough to play characters on glorified forum systems.
So it took me a good two weeks or so, but I finally choked down my pride because a potential castmate was going to app. I focused on voice, stuck with my friends for beta... and kinda got more of the same. Some of the things they said completely went against what I’d got in the crit from the last voting round, and the betas in the previous round. When I brought this up I got “I’m not seeing any disagreement here”. Okay not in THAT group of betas, but compared to what I’d heard before? Then yeah, yeah there was a disagreement. I essentially threw the idea out the window and started again, hoping to get something done and send it in. I sent a comment to Cielo and she looked it over.
And said that she would have at least voted me in on the last paragraph.
Up until that point I had minimal, if any positive reinforcement through the app process. Up until then I was the living embodiment of the table-flip emoticon. When someone is coming off being voted out they’re usually more sensitive then normal. They’ve just been told by a large portion of the players that their work isn’t good enough to play a person who doesn’t exist in a b-grade zombie camp. So to ignore the very core of betaing/crit is a recipe for getting bitched at.
What is that core rule? One negative point for every two positive points. When Cielo told me that I did SOMETHING right, everything changed. I worked on that app lovingly, and I set it aside because I wanted it to be perfect for when I sent it in. I fretted over the canon, made a spreadsheet of every single time that character appeared in the series, even if it was just for a moment, and reread over all the books. While the last time I sent my app in because I said “Fuck it, it sucks but I’ve seen worse get in. I’ll just hope all the hardass voters are dead at the moment”, this time I was emotionally invested in my work. Yes I flailed on the last day and I was working up to the very deadline, but I laughed a little at my own work, had moments of “OH FUCK YES, that’s so him”, and looked back on my work and was proud.
So I sent it in, and it went up to vote. And within the first MINUTE about four people voted it out. I hurried to do damage control and ask for crit/explain myself... when the person I want to punch replied.
Now here’s the thing about crit. If you’re from an obscure canon you have the odds stacked against you. If you have an obscure canon with a CAST your odds are better, since they’re more likely to whiteknight for you if they think the app is good. But if you’re from an obscure canon, you have no cast, and someone who says they’re canon familiar tears you a new asshole, you’re fucked. Here is the double standard of crit in action. The voter/person giving the crit can say just about anything short of “You suck cock and I don’t want you to ever app here again” and get away with it. However the person getting the crit has to be very, VERY careful about what they say, or they get told that they’re acting rude and people will have a stronger tendency to vote them out. It’s the same thing with betas, you can’t say “My betas focused on the negative only/gave me conflicting advice/told me my app was weak and then didn’t provide help on how to fix that”. You. Just. Can’t. The last person who did heavily point it out in the voting comm got raked over hot coals for it, and you better damn believe they didn’t get in.
Now I did essentially have a back and forth saying “here’s my points, here’s what I think we’re disagreeing on, and I think my view of him is still valid.” Aaaand for the most part I felt she was flippant and condescending. It came down to two people who were both canon familiar having differing views on the character interpretation. If I had noted that, as an apper I would have crossed an even bigger line, and you can bet that shit would have come down on me. Even though I knew that I had a good chance of being voted out at that point, I wanted to defend myself, because otherwise I felt I was validating her view that I didn’t know the character and/or had half-assed the app. I was going to go out, but I would go out like I wanted to.
And then near the end Aj commented. Now I’m mentioning her name because she’s awesome and I have nothing but respect for her after this, and thus I'm not saying anything bad about her. She brought up a lot of the main points, but she did so in a sensitive way and I didn’t feel talked down to at all. I don’t even care if she voted me out or not. I don’t even remember and it doesn’t matter. She provided good crit that I’m very likely to follow in the reapp, and she explained her views in a way that not only was respectful, but her tone even helped me get past the depression stage faster. It’s okay, there were flaws but some good things too, YOU DON’T SUCK.
In a lot of ways taking on a challenging app has been eye-opening. I’m planning on opening a game soon, and I never would have discovered these problems with the app system if I hadn’t gone through this. I think the voter-based app system is the best, and I’ll be using it in my game, but I now know what guidelines to mention, what to suggest to potential betas and voters, and how to hopefully nip that “elitist” accusation in the bud.
All in all it’s been an okay weekend aside from that little bump, and I’ve gotten a lot of work done on the website for the game. I have a counselor app coming up, but the canon review and the app itself will be pure joy. On other matters I’ll be talking to the dentist on the 12th about why my root canalled tooth still smells like rot, and I need to bug the people at that one job again. But right now? I need to sleep.
no subject
And yeah, mixing some praise with the crit is...really a pretty basic concept that can get too easily forgotten. Not even just as positive reinforcement or basic politeness (although that's pretty important in its own right), but also because how can people know what they should keep doing if no one tells them what they're doing right? All-negative crit can work okay for getting that one thing out the door, but in the long term it just doesn't help nearly as much as knowing the good and the bad aspects. And I've been as guilty of it as anyone when I'm tired or pissy, but I do try.
no subject
But you know, I'm preaching to the choir here.